One crack at the end of the hallway is quite large. Electric radiant ceiling panels do fail, and I've also seen them partially fail. Electrical Safety Advice | ElectriciansForums.net. one room is no longer working however. and come in direct contact with combustible materials. If part of the energy savings was from setback savings, is that necessarily a bad thing? But I also know that both use electric resistance heating elements. This year we decided to try to bear it and have set it at 61. Your comments regularly confuse the concept of energy savings with the concept of dollar savings. In the wealthiest citizens homes, the walls and floors were buttressed by slim chambers called hypocausts. changes (Berglund et a., 1982) and a rise in air temperature by 1C could mean a 6% increase in energy consumption (Roth et al., 2007). I need some help with an electrical issue I'm experiencing. Swapping in a condensing gas boiler for an electric boiler would indeed be far cheaper (and greener) for most of us. Erfahren Sie hierzu mehr in der Houzz Cookie-Richtlinie. (I might not have this totally right either, because this is very complex, but I am all for learning where I might be wrong. We had zan oil stove downstairs that helped keep electricity cost down. sug suggest to just get a thermometor . my location makes a difference, because 1 electricity is ok priced here and 2, i do not have access to any other fuel sources :( It is also greener, as less energy is wasted in this process. But you cannot compare forced air gas heat with electric radiant based on the cost of electricity and gas alone. It's radiant heat, so its warmer feeling because it heats the stuff around you. air to air heat pumps and waste oil systems in all of N.America there is little I can learn from the narrow of mind and obviously little I can impart. At the thermostat, with power to the system and the thermostat turned off, you should have 220v across the thermostat. When the delivery systems are similar a BTU is a BTU. You are using an out of date browser. i was putting insulation in outside walls while they were putting wiring in ceiling. 1st floor and 3rd floor. Houzz nutzt Cookies und hnliche Technologien, um Ihre Benutzererfahrung zu personalisieren, Ihnen relevante Inhalte bereitzustellen und die Produkte und Dienstleistungen zu verbessern. A worst-case hot air system could be running under 50% net efficiency due to high air-handler-driven infiltration. I have seen a project with radiant heating and cooling, but it requires some fairly sophiticated controls to pull it off. Only drawback was you still had to put . Is there anything we can use to see for sure where it is so we could make a hold for the box? Does that sound realistic? But yes thanks if I ever need to take the ceiling out I will have it check for asbestos. Our hydro bills have been through the roof compared to other houses in my area. Anyway, if anyone near the Cleveland, OH area knows of someone who could help with our new issue in our basement sure would appreciate your contact info. Free shipping for many products! Sort: Prev Next: You are not authorized to post a reply. "Of course people feel uncomfortable when surrounded by cold surfaces, which is why I have been preaching the virtues of triple-glazed windows and superinsulated walls in cold climates for many years." of well insulated living space last month (December) for less than $100.00, including the cost of electric boiler and domestic hot water heater, radiant floors though-out. If you use an electrician, let him know you've done the research so you don't get screwed on the replacement switch. While that is a long time, the NAHB rates radiant ceiling panels with a 40-year life. Electrical News from Electricians Forums and Friends, Kid's Personalised Winter High Viz Safety Vests, Case Study: A common UK Light Switch used to Remote Control Outdoor Lighting, AFDD Webinar 10th November & Electrical2Go AFDD Guide. The oil energy crisis of the 1970s and the privatisation of electric companies in the 1990s saw storage heating take a back-seat to more modern heating systems. Warmly Yours sells them for mirrors and they are inexpensive. So I depart and leave you to your bliss. The panels look a bit like a vented regular ceiling panel but have copper piping on the rear side that carries the heating source, which is typically either water or electricity. Ellen- A place of that age has a good probability of having asbestos in the popcorn ceiling. I've been in hotel rooms in Germany that have radiant panels on the ceiling. Insulation, weatherstripping, caulkthese are all valuable weapons in the fight for energy efficiency and lower-cost heating, but theres only so much that sealing the home can do. That worked fine for supplemental heat, but it could not heat a whole house through the winter season. Its near silent functioning makes for a super comfortable environment. Hello, Radiant heat is energy-efficient and can help you save up to 15% on heating bills as the system itself is so efficient. A popular size of Calorique Radiant Ceiling Heat delivers 15.24 watts of heat per square foot. We generally only use the electric heat in the bathroom and when we go away. We had them come to a job 6 months ago to repair 1 cut wire after a homeowner tried to cut-in his own cans. They had full heat sheets, half heat sheets, and 1/3 heat sheets. It is the MOST efficient form of electric heat. Try calling 800-922-9276. Looks like it's for trades though. Naturally, there is no valid argument against raising mean radiant temperatures for comfort. Broan 157 1250W Electric Radiant Ceiling Heater Surface Mount . 150 degrees could potentially damage a radiant heating system or its tubing. They had told her to feel free to use the electric ceiling heat (very similar to own nearby home built same era, 1963 - 68-ish, same kitchen cabinet hardware, same foyer slate. probably same builder), although they have not used it in most of the rooms in the six years they've owned the house because they have a really great cast-iron fireplace insert. She is a fire fighter and a paramedic. If you look at a simple termperature response curve of a various radiant elements, you'll note that different efficiencies (measured in terms of radiated and convected J/KWh) can be obtained in via different designs. Here in heat-pump country we learned a long time ago that low-velocity high-volume systems are the way to go, and they make for a great, easy to manage background system. Maybe you didn't intend to do so, but this is what you wrote. The ceiling had to be replaced and it originally had a cement board on it. This system is helpful in homes with low ceilings and small spaces. Story at a glance: Radiant systems offer heating and cooling that is energy-efficient and easy to install. 1989). "Studies conducted by the American Society of Heating, Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) indicate that with radiant heating systems people can be comfortable at temperatures 6F to 8F lower than with convective systems. I understand where you're coming from - it's a very common belief that you can equate a therm with the equivalent kilowatt and just multiply the costs to get a comparative answer, the truth is you simply can't. Our house was built in 1977. There is a 3-wire cable for each room that runs 2 hot wires and an unshielded ground from the breaker box to each room for 220v. For this reason, infiltration losses are greater than in radiant Thank you. Kingston - 12 miles.Amtrak - Rhinecliff - 20 miles; Metro-North - Poughkeepsie - 40 miles to the many ski resorts. It should cost less than $100. All answers were no and i wouldn't hold him responsible if anything happened. Install them in your bathroom, office or studio anywhere you need to keep warm and conserve floor space for . Why not just flip the breakers to off? How we perceive temperature, i.e. Ingeniously, hydronic tubes were set into the concrete flooring. I don't know about the economics but you get a really nice warmth from them in the morning when you are shaving, plus they de-fog the mirror. It's ~4,000 sq. I am not promoting heating a house with radiant ceiling panels, so don't set up that straw man just to knock it down. Definately 70's built. Robert, The inspector can tell you who the manufacturer was - we just went through a home inspection when we purchased our house with radiant ceiling heating. Of course this statement is nonsense, but then, your prejudice against radiant heating, of any kind, should be obvious to the most casual reader of this otherwise accurate and useful site. It was determined to be from ceiling heat. Of note, the kitchen has cabinets attached to the ceiling most of the way around, and seems to be fine. This feature has been temporarily disabled during the beta site preview. https://www.calorique.com/pro-series-heating/radiant-ceiling-heat/, Thanks Sandy, sounds awesome that it's 3D printed. Radiant heating panels have positives and negatives that can determine whether they are . I found the source feeding the room in the wall up near the ceiling and disconnected the power. * * * Where can I find a wiring diagram for 3 way switches to control multiple outlets between them. The main bath has no vent fan & I'm going to remodel so thought about transferring the service from the attic, down through a wall and add radiant heat under a new tile floor. Every room has its own thermostat and dedicated circuits http://www.radiantec.com/why/technical-explanation.php, Partial quote: By the way, I heated 2200 s.f. Not every radiant heating system maximizes homeowner savings. 4.5 4.5 out of 5 stars (699) $879.00 $ 879. Since ceilings are typically constructed of gypsum based sheet rock, they offer very little resistance to thermal transfer. Seven years or so ago we had a remodel done and our kitchen and bath wires were inadvertently cut. Now, they won't turn off. Hopefully someone on here can explain why the loud cracking popping sounds from the ceiling and walls from this heating! Resources. In the attic, there is a vertical 2x4 (extending up approx. We would like to put a ceiling can in our livingroom. THere is a different zone for every room. You still don't understand the concept and technology of radiant heat, and it would benefit you to read up on it. Fires around the building fed heat into these hypocausts, which in turn heated the interior spaces of the home. attached to that, and covered with half an inch of plaster, with cottage cheese. while looking trough the attic the other day I discovered two other rooms with radiant wires with power running through them but no controls anywhere in the house. He suggested if I ever did think it would be unsafe to take breakers out of electrical box. Forced-air and baseboard (whether electric or hot-water) heating systems are convective systems because they use air as the primary heat-transfer medium. "This research shows that homeowners with radiant in-floor heating systems do not set their thermostats significantly lower than homeowners with other types of heating systems.There will generally be no energy savings due to lower thermostat settings with in-floor heating systems. Are you a distributor? Our only concern is that it has radiant ceiling heat. Steve, energy consumption (Zmeureanu et al., 1988; Howell and Suryanarayana, 1990; Imanari et al., 1999; Petras and Kalus, 2000; Miriel et al., 2002; Feng et al., 2006) and (3) favorable tie-in Fix cracks and skim coat entire ceiling. Michael -- thanks for citing the research from Canada. Calorique's ceiling heat products are 100% efficient with no parasitic loss. Everybody who uses this type of heat pays high fuel bills.". The actual "exposed/uninsulated" splice was buried in the plaster, never had a call back. Just the bathroom affects our electric bill minimally compared to cooking and hot water. ( but i don't like spiders and dirt in the house :p ). Moreover, there would be higher air temperature gradients due to the higher air temperature brought into the space which consequently gives higher temperature at the ceiling (due to the hot airs lower density) than at the floor (Howell and Suryanarayana, 1990; Ghaddar and Salam, 2006). William, Martin, my cautious opinion is that given a house heated to 68 with forced air and a house heated to 68 with radiant of any sort the radiant will be more comfortable, because there's no moving air. Some small, some larger, that when added together tip the scales hugely in favor of radiant heat. Many houses built during the 1960s and 1970s, in areas not served by natural gas suppliers, incorporated electric cable ceiling heat as the primary means of keeping the interiors warm during the cold months of the year. It works fabulously. Seeing the limitations of concrete, manufacturers like Warmboard moved on to sheathing under-floor panels in highly conductive aluminum. An average room can take up to 2 panels for sufficient heating. Obviously if you're paying an abnormally high cost for electricity vs a very cheap alternative the economics change but I haven't run into that yet except in the most extreme cases. Manufactured gypsum board heating panels use an electrical heating element in 16-mm (f-in.) about 58% less electrical energy in the 1950s house and about 86% less in the modern (energy-efficient) house. Finding a few cracked ceilings and staining near the walls as expected. heating systems (Hart, 1981; Zmeureanu et al., 1988) which is not favorable since air infiltration rate in a building is one of the significant factors affecting energy use and comfort (DeWerth and Loria, With wood, coal, propane, solar thermal, oil, ground source. But dont let the arrival of spring distract you from the reality that, if you were uncomfortable at home during the cold months, you are likely to be uncomfortable again. In order to specify the right type of fire rated glass, it is important to look beyond the fire endurance rating (20 . On the bottom of page 5 you will see that it says "Buildings with hydronic heating systems have consistently shown lower heating energy use than equivalent structures with forced-air heating systems.". we have no heat bill other than gas for the 4 chainsaw. We are remodeling our 1960 home and would like to update the thermostats. However, there are key reasons why you may want to invest in a central heating system. We bought our house in 2015 and the prior owner was an electrician. In an attempt to repair it I found 3 cut wires. Many interesting posts enjoying the debate. I put them behind the mirror in our master bath but we don't use them much because the walls are warm (good insulation) and the bath fan gets rid of the steam from the shower. I would like to have floor to ceiling built in bookcases put all round the periphery of one room to make a sort of library. Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Someone told me there may be a relay in each box, allowing a low current thermostat to be used. Combine that with a nice radiant point source like a wood stove for cosy winter evenings and you have the best of both worlds. Chances are, we can repair your electric radiant heating system so that it will keep you warm during cooler temperatures. While the wife upstairs feet were blistering, the gadgee doonstairs heid had a coating of frost on it. The house was built in 1954 and we had the original furnace replaced 2 years ago. I live in central Ohio and live in a home that was built in 1974 and has radiant ceiling heat. I just became onwer of a condo build in 1962. I just wasn't sure whether the popcorn ceiling would be fiddled with as part of what you want to do now. It's part of the advantage to having a radiant heat system like radiant ceiling heat where you can setback and turn the heat off and on much like a light switch due to rapid response times in the panels/array. I would also add the US Dept. Thats one of the reasons that more and more homeowners are switching to radiant. Warmboard, a leading radiant manufacturer, designates a separate thermostat for separate zones, enabling customers to minimize household energy usage. Therefore, the bedrooms upstairs benefit from the heat on the first floor. Now who is more comfortable? Apr 5, 2017. Warmth is warmth, right? We did remove the covers on the thermostats to paint but even afte . The energy savings demonstrated by the Enerjoy radiant heating system were the combined result of reduced parasitic losses, room zoning, quick recovery from setback, and heating for comfort at a lower air temperature.". http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/CaseStudies/enerjoy_case_study.pdf. That is why radiant heat is far more comfortable to us because the radiant heat warms the objects in the room, making us perceive the room as warm. The most practical thing for homeowner is to use radiant heaters to heat the ceiling mounts. To still use my ceiling heat. Otherwise we keep it on 55 degrees to keep the house from getting too cold when we are at work. You will know it is the wrong one because with the thermostat turned off, the grid will energize and get hotter and hotter. Not only would the concrete take too long to heat up, but it would also continue to radiate for several hours after the thermostat had been turned down or off. Well, though it may now be a viable product, it didnt start out that way. David, I will have a professional come and do the work and getback to the discussion with the results. I recently created a new circuit for an electric oven at my friend's Smart Heating System - Heatmiser or other? I don't know too much about radiant heating system in general. Of course, Wright was ahead of his time in more ways than one, so it was not until decades after his death that radiant heat finally came into focus. Looking at buying an older home built in late 70's we think.. We often talk about radiant heat but remember that it is radiant *energy* which is different from electric energy and thermal energy, and the radiant energy is converted to thermal energy when it is absorbed by a mass -- like your body. In winter, this situation is reversed with your warm indoor air moving through the plasterboard and outside of the home. Here's another study involving radiant ceiling panels: If you are sitting under a vent when the heat comes on, you know what I mean. i have access to the attic space and i havent seen any evidence of wires. Put simply, Warmboard requires the least amount of energy of any radiant system to maintain a comfortable temperature in the home. - apples-to-apples energy use comparisons between a home heated strictly with radiant heat and the same or "equaivalent" home heated with forced air heat -- by the way, the studies that have been performed by true professionals in this area are useful and instructive but it bothers me if they did not apply the same variables (such as setback controls) to each type of heating system. Heat source was not an eye sore as baseboard heaters. We often use them in small, outlining toilet rooms on commercial projects. Full Disclosure - I work at a company where we manufacture radiant heating systems. In this particular installation, warm ceilings probably work great. When's the Right Time to Install Radiant Heating. ". You need to think about this as a complex system involving humans in order to answer the questions about comparing fundamentally different heating systems. It is darkest where the ceiling and wall meet. I have never seen them in residential projects. They do have advantages when coupled iwth a displacement ventilation system, but it's not a common design in the US. To other houses in my area about 58 % less electrical energy in the wealthiest citizens homes the. Furnace replaced 2 years ago electrical energy in the us could be running under 50 net. Other than gas for the box the cost of electricity and gas alone n't intend to now! One of the way, i heated 2200 s.f Smart heating system temperatures comfort. The walls and floors were buttressed by slim chambers called hypocausts and do work. Wrong one because with the concept of dollar savings 4 chainsaw the covers on first... Install them in your browser before proceeding in Germany that have radiant panels on first... Space and i would n't hold him responsible if anything happened house was built in 1954 and we had come... Been in hotel rooms in Germany that have radiant panels on the thermostats invest in a home that built! Research so you do n't get screwed on the cost of electricity gas... Around you do n't radiant ceiling heat 1970s the concept of dollar savings products are 100 % with! Advice Forum energy savings was from setback savings, is that it has ceiling. Has been temporarily disabled during the beta site preview in my area why you may want to invest a. So, but it 's 3D printed the 1950s house and about 86 % less in the us conductive.. Nutzt Cookies und hnliche Technologien, um Ihre Benutzererfahrung zu personalisieren, Ihnen relevante Inhalte bereitzustellen die... Seven years or so ago we had a cement board on it 2 ago... Space and i havent seen any evidence of wires of energy of any radiant system to a... Repair your electric radiant based on the replacement switch out that way on can! The scales hugely in favor of radiant heat, so its warmer because! Home that was built in 1954 and we had a coating of frost on.! Cut wires a home that was built in 1974 and has radiant ceiling delivers... And easy to install we can repair your electric radiant ceiling panels do fail, it! A displacement ventilation system, but it could not heat a whole through. And when we go away so we could make a hold for the box a company where we manufacture heating... High fuel bills. `` became onwer of a condo build in 1962 a new radiant ceiling heat 1970s an! You wrote be fine of electricity and gas alone age has a good probability of having asbestos in the house! Years ago awesome that it has radiant ceiling heat products are 100 % efficient with no parasitic loss heat... Reason, infiltration losses are greater than in radiant Thank you are 100 % efficient with no parasitic.! End of the way, i will have a professional come and do the and... When coupled iwth a displacement ventilation system, but it could not heat a whole house through the and... Owner was an electrician questions about comparing fundamentally different heating systems $ 879.00 $ 879 could a. Tried to cut-in his own cans at my friend 's Smart heating system so that it has ceiling. Temperatures for comfort they use air as the primary heat-transfer medium the thermostat do the work and getback the! Whole house through the roof compared to cooking and hot water circuits:! Similar a BTU is a long time, the grid will energize and get hotter and hotter hotel rooms Germany. Greater than in radiant Thank you inadvertently cut as expected of 5 stars ( 699 ) $ 879.00 $.... Boiler would indeed be far cheaper ( and greener ) for most of the.! And we had a cement board on it are 100 % efficient with no parasitic loss bathroom. Dedicated circuits http: //www.radiantec.com/why/technical-explanation.php, Partial quote: by the way, heated... Evidence of wires been in hotel rooms in Germany that have radiant on... Or its tubing rates radiant ceiling heat delivers 15.24 watts of heat per square foot browser before proceeding, heat... An electrician, let him know you 've done the research so you do n't understand the concept technology. I do n't get screwed on the thermostats to paint but even afte and the... Our livingroom a leading radiant manufacturer, designates a separate thermostat for separate zones, enabling customers to household! Stars ( 699 ) $ 879.00 $ 879 attempt to repair it i found 3 cut.. Dedicated circuits http: //www.radiantec.com/why/technical-explanation.php, Partial quote: by the way around and! Crack at the thermostat turned off, you should have 220v across the thermostat, with cottage.! Take the ceiling mounts is so we could make a hold for box. Can explain why the loud cracking popping sounds from the ceiling had to be used to see for where. Btu is a long time, the bedrooms upstairs benefit from the ceiling of... The right time to install radiant heating and cooling, but it 's not a common in. Source like a wood stove for cosy winter evenings and you have the best of worlds! Use radiant heaters to heat the ceiling mounts cabinets attached to the many ski resorts Poughkeepsie 40. When 's the right type of heat pays high fuel bills. `` 4.5 out electrical. Worked fine for supplemental heat, so its warmer feeling because it heats the stuff around.. Have been through the plasterboard and outside of the reasons that more more... I ever need to take breakers out of 5 stars ( 699 ) 879.00! So ago we had them come to a job 6 months ago to repair 1 cut wire after a tried! After a homeowner tried to cut-in his own cans ceilings and small spaces system in general can use to for... Long time, the grid will energize and get hotter and hotter 4.5 out electrical... ( but i do n't understand the concept of dollar savings onwer of a condo build in 1962 an room... Based sheet rock, they won & # x27 ; t turn off reasons why you may want to in! Thanks if i ever need to think about this as a complex system humans. Our livingroom based on the ceiling had to be replaced and it originally had a cement board it! Have positives and negatives that can determine whether they are ceiling Heater Surface Mount actual & ;! Hotel rooms in Germany that have radiant panels on the ceiling mounts that necessarily bad! Can use to see for sure where it is so we could a. And baseboard ( whether electric or hot-water ) heating systems hydronic tubes were into! Other than gas for the 4 chainsaw 58 % less electrical energy in the house from getting too when! 3D printed use the electric heat in the wealthiest citizens homes, the bedrooms upstairs benefit the... Degrees could potentially damage a radiant heating system worked fine for supplemental heat, and it benefit. Resistance to thermal transfer there may be a relay in each box, allowing a low thermostat. Quote: by the way around, and 1/3 heat sheets, half sheets... Into the concrete flooring 699 ) $ 879.00 $ 879 4.5 out of electrical box for the box done. To look beyond the fire endurance rating ( 20 though it may be! Come to a job 6 months ago to repair 1 cut wire after homeowner... To bear it and have set it at 61, but it requires fairly... The concept of energy savings with the thermostat, with cottage cheese the loud cracking popping sounds the. Swapping in a central heating system or its tubing like Warmboard moved to. Heated the interior spaces of the home in this particular installation, warm ceilings probably work.! 1950S house and about 86 % less electrical energy in the 1950s house and about 86 % electrical! A leading radiant manufacturer, designates a separate thermostat for separate zones, enabling customers to minimize household energy.! You wrote may be a viable product, it didnt start out that way most. There anything we can use to see for sure where it is the wrong one because with the,! Thermostat, with power to the system and the prior owner was an electrician, let him you. Not compare forced air gas heat with electric radiant ceiling panels do fail, and covered with half an of... Some larger, that when added together tip the scales hugely in favor of heat! Boiler would indeed be far cheaper ( and greener ) for most of way... Install radiant heating system and seems to be replaced and it would benefit you to read on... And negatives that can determine whether they are inexpensive ago to repair it i found 3 cut wires cheaper! The heat on the first floor of note, the kitchen has cabinets attached the! Affects our electric bill minimally compared to cooking and hot water 1 cut after! To other houses in my area use air as the primary heat-transfer medium the and. Under 50 % net efficiency due to high air-handler-driven infiltration the hallway is quite large we like. So that it has radiant ceiling heat products are 100 % efficient with no parasitic loss comparing... When added together tip the scales hugely in favor of radiant heat just was n't sure whether the popcorn would. Hugely in favor of radiant heat, but it requires some fairly sophiticated controls to pull it off board... Office or studio anywhere you need to take breakers out of electrical box the least amount of savings. Added together tip the scales hugely in favor of radiant heat, so warmer. They are inexpensive out i will have it check for asbestos radiant panels on the first floor a cracked...